Baba Speaks

Bhagavan Das is a man on a life-long pilgrimage to touch the Divine in such a way as to bring it and himself Home again. With an economy of words, he expressed his connection to the Source from which we all come. Punctuated by gentle laughter; the simplicity of what he fervently believes, emerged.

In Ram Dass' classic "Be Here Now", he was introduced. Now, 30 some years later, his book, cleverly entitled, "It's Here Now (Are You?)" carries the reader along the journey with him.

New Visions Magazine: How would you define the word 'guru'?

Bhagavan Das: The word actually means: "ruing the gu". "Ru" means remove and "gu" means darkness. It also means "a weighty one", someone with real gravitas. The concept of the guru in the West is that of a teacher; you hear the term "Wall Street Guru". The idea of the guru in the East or in India, specifically is that of the "Sat Guru" or "True Guru" which means a being who has broken through ordinary consciousness and who is able to become a mirror for the Divine transcendental energy, therefore, the guru is God in India. This concept is kind of hard to get for the West.

NVM: What was the transformation that took place when Michael Riggs became Bhagavan Das? What happened within you?

BD: What happened within me was that I realized that my dharma, or my purpose in life was to realize God and become enlightened, so that I could lead my people Home. That idea of kind of a leadership role stuck with me. My consciousness became deeply transformed and I started seeing the luminous quality of light in everything and started perceiving everything in a spiritual tone so that mundanes was erased in my life.

NVM: When you said, "lead my people Home", who did you perceive them to be at that time?

BD: America, which I felt had become just one vast mall of suburbia. All the trees were cut down. Everything was corporate America. This was back in 1959 when it wasn't really that bad. It was bad enough for me that I felt like that was the role I would play.

NVM: What was your spiritual upbringing?

BD: My father is Irish Catholic and we practiced the Episcopalian religion. We went to church every Sunday, but I had a very deep connection with my grandmother who was a pretty saintly woman. I think those early six years of my life with her really is what set the mystical tone for the rest of my life.

NVM: What was it that sparked your desire to travel to India and Nepal?

BD: I left a month after Kennedy was shot, in 1963. I think that shot kind of did something to me. The Vietnam war was raging on. I just knew I had to get out of America. I needed to find out just what my life purpose was. I realized that I was really looking for God, once I got on the road.

NVM: What does "Spirit" mean to you?

BD: It means connecting with the transcendental in our lives and finding the interplay between the mundane and the spiritual. It means taking time out and going within. It means going inside instead of outside.

NVM: Do you feel that we can become so enraptured with the Divine that we forget our own humanity; that we are bodies as well as spirit and mind?

BD: Definitely. I think it's finding a balance between the female and the male energy, of the spirit and the body. But, the key is finding the middle. I think that's what everyone aspires to. I think in order to find the middle, because we've been so outwardly directed toward the body, we need to step in for some time and then we can come back slowly.

NVM: How has that manifested in your own life?

BD: I take periods of solitude and I do daily spiritual practice in the morning and evenings where I step out of so-called mundane reality and I worship my guru. I sit quietly for an hour.

NVM: That's kind of a tricky word: "worship". Most people think of it in terms of something other than that which is human. Do you differentiate between worship of Divine, vs. a person who has been your spiritual guide and teacher?

BD: The amazing thing with having a connection with a Sat Guru is that I have known him physically and those memories of being in his presence and feeling that bliss and joy, comes back when I sit and meditate on his picture.

NVM: And that's Neem Karoli Baba?

BD: Yes. I'm on tour with Ammachi and she is right now in New York City. I am going tonight to be with her and will be in the presence of a Sat Guru. The Sat Guru is not a person and it's really the same energy, whether it's Neem Karoli Baba or Ammachi. It's called G.U.R.U. (gee you are you).

NVM: How would describe ecstatic singing?

BD: It's chanting and being able to completely go into it in such an intense way, that one is transported into this ecstasy that is able to take everyone in the room with them. That's the kind of chanting I do.

NVM: Is that the power inherent in chanting?

BD: I think the power is inherent in it and also with ones connection to the Divine. I think it's a very personal thing. It definitely has that shamanic quality to it.

NVM: How can Westerners integrate yogic teachings into our cultural paradigm since it's so foreign to most of us?

BD: I think by finding a daily spiritual practice that has to be custom-tailored to each person. It may be taking a walk in the woods each night, for someone who finds a Christian tradition, it might be doing Hail Mary's for an hour. Just find prayer and a meditative state and step into that connection with God/Goddess.

NVM: How do you perceive the idea of God?

BD: For me, I worship Shakti; I worship the Divine Mother. For me, God is women. I perceive all women as God and the female energy. I know that it is both male and female, but for me, it's the Mother. That energy is everywhere in nature, it's the moon, it's the wind, it's the green of the Earth. That's my own particular path which is the Tantric path. The way it works is that we see the male form as being the spirit or formless energy of God and that the manifestation of God is the Mother. Since we do live here in the body, I think it's very powerful to worship the form.

NVM: You've acknowledged in some things I've read that along your path, you have journeyed to places and taken action that was not in keeping with your higher spiritual beliefs. What have you learned from those experiences and how have you transformed yourself once again?

BD: Going into something, I think what's important is your intention once you are doing it. My intention is always to again find a deeper level of devotion. You course correct as you go along. I'm finding that having a spiritual goal and being able to manifest that energy in a positive way for other people is important too. To have the discipline and being able to reign in and follow the path.

NVM: There's an awesome responsibility that any leader holds and it's because of our humanity that it's easy to fall off the path.

BD: And to say, I really don't want to be Bhagavan Das, I just want to continue to be Michael Riggs and be invisible, but it doesn't seem to be my dharma. As leader of the hippies I want to help them find their real spiritual roots which is really what it was about in the 1960s.

NVM: Do you find now that in the year 2001, that the people who are turning to the teachings you honor are more mainstream and less aging hippies?

BD: Much more mainstream, but I think it's still the values that people are finding, coming into ecology and a vegetarian or vegan diet, people doing yoga again and searching for a deeper meaning to life.

NVM: Can you speak about the two recent projects that are close to your heart?

BD: My book is called, "It's Here Now (Are You?)" and it's about finding God in the world. It's autobiographical; a memoir, about my journey and surrendering into existence and how each event takes you closer to the Divine connection. It's very enlightening, because it's truthful. We're all on the journey, whether we acknowledge it or not.

NVM: As you were writing it, did you find pieces of yourself that you thought were lost?

BD: Writing this book was one of the hardest things I have ever done. It was a deep psychotherapy for me and I definitely discovered parts of myself that were hidden.

NVM: Then the next step is embracing those parts of yourself.

BD: Embracing them and moving on in my career, which seems to be in the Pop vein right now.

NVM: Speaking of that; what is your new CD called?

BD: It's called "Bhagavan Das Now" and it's with Mike D. of the Beastie Boys.

NVM: What an interesting combination; how did that come to be?

BD: We met a few years ago because he had read my book. I had never heard of the Beastie Boys. He had been going on a spiritual journey himself and connecting with a mutual friend name Sharon Gannon who is the director of the Jivamukti Yoga Center in New York City. Sharon told him about me and we connected in New York and became friends. The record will be out August 21st on Grand Royal. I just finished an interview with Rolling Stone.

NVM: Cool beans! Was that one of your aspirations; to be on the "cover of the Rolling Stone"?

BD: I don't know . . . we'll see what happens. There's also a full page story in Interview Magazine this month . . . "The Hippie Meets the Beastie".

NVM: Is there anything else you would like to share?

BD: The most important thing is the present moment and to keep being here now and realize that when we inhale, we're born and when we exhale, we die and in between the beat of our life goes on. We live in our perception of reality and we see is what we get. The key is to remember to take breaks out of your day and just breathe. If you've got a mantra or a name of God that you find close to your heart, to repeat that with the breath, particularly while you're driving. It's just that idea of maintaining some sanity in your life. Find eternity now; it's here now . . . are you?